SPOnG’s just noticed an interesting feature in today’s Technology Guardian, detailing the recent post-E3 PR turmoil surrounding Sony and its forthcoming next gen console/Super Computer, the PlayStation 3.
The piece is interesting for a number of reasons, mainly because it is perhaps the first national newspaper to offer a well-written, reasoned account of Sony’s recent (mis)fortunes.
The Guardian’s well-respected technology editor Jack Schofield poses and attempts to answer the straightforward question, on pretty much every games industry exec and developer’s mind right now: “Is Sony fighting a losing battle?”
Schofield strangely paints Sony’s showing at E3 as a successful high point, from which it’s been “...downhill from there...” This is perhaps the only point in the article SPOnG disagrees with, with it being pretty much universally agreed that, in PR-terms, Sony ‘lost’ E3, with Nintendo coming out of the show as clear winners with Wii, and Microsoft running a close second with a far more robust games line-up for its 360 over the coming Christmas holiday season.
The Guardian rounds up the various issues that have caused Sony setbacks in recent times, highlighting a number of salient points - the backlash against the Killzone demo (widely believed to be a fake); development issues with the Cell processor; the perceived value of Blu-ray to the mass market and, most clearly of all, the initial whopping great cost of the console.
Schofield offers a perceptive overview of the situation which, in his opinion is this: “Rather than dampening down the overheated online arguments about all these issues, Sony's staff have tended to feed the flames, appearing remote or even arrogant. For example, Kaz Hirai, president and chief executive of Sony Computer Entertainment America, recently told PlayStation Magazine: "Every time we go down a path, we look behind and [Microsoft is] right there - we just can't shake these guys. I wish that they would come up with some strategies of their own, but they seem to be going down the path of everything we do."
He continues: “It's a remark that Hirai might have got away with in an earlier age, but it was instantly dismembered online. Microsoft was first to put a hard drive in a console, and pioneered with its Xbox Live community building (or both Microsoft and Sony are following the Sega Dreamcast). Microsoft was first to do a global console launch, which Sony is emulating. Microsoft offered two versions of its Xbox 360 console - which Sony said was a bad idea - but there will be two versions of the PS3, and so on.”
On a more positive note, Schofield speaks to Jez San, of (now sadly defunct) Argonaut Software fame, and an investor in PS3 title Heavenly Sword. San offers a more sober, long term view of the PS3's chances.
San thinks the PS3 will win, "...but only because it's got Blu-ray… I think the combination of a next-generation games machine and a next-generation DVD player that plays full high definition movies is very compelling, despite the huge price. Remember, price is just a function of time and volume. It doesn't matter what the PS3 comes out at, it's what it gets down to, over time, that's important."
What do you think? Is Blu-ray the deal-maker or breaker? Will you be shelling out $599/£425 come November 17, or are you happy to hang fire for a while until the price drops to a more reasonable and affordable level?
As ever, let us know in the forums.
The piece is interesting for a number of reasons, mainly because it is perhaps the first national newspaper to offer a well-written, reasoned account of Sony’s recent (mis)fortunes.
The Guardian’s well-respected technology editor Jack Schofield poses and attempts to answer the straightforward question, on pretty much every games industry exec and developer’s mind right now: “Is Sony fighting a losing battle?”
Schofield strangely paints Sony’s showing at E3 as a successful high point, from which it’s been “...downhill from there...” This is perhaps the only point in the article SPOnG disagrees with, with it being pretty much universally agreed that, in PR-terms, Sony ‘lost’ E3, with Nintendo coming out of the show as clear winners with Wii, and Microsoft running a close second with a far more robust games line-up for its 360 over the coming Christmas holiday season.
The Guardian rounds up the various issues that have caused Sony setbacks in recent times, highlighting a number of salient points - the backlash against the Killzone demo (widely believed to be a fake); development issues with the Cell processor; the perceived value of Blu-ray to the mass market and, most clearly of all, the initial whopping great cost of the console.
Schofield offers a perceptive overview of the situation which, in his opinion is this: “Rather than dampening down the overheated online arguments about all these issues, Sony's staff have tended to feed the flames, appearing remote or even arrogant. For example, Kaz Hirai, president and chief executive of Sony Computer Entertainment America, recently told PlayStation Magazine: "Every time we go down a path, we look behind and [Microsoft is] right there - we just can't shake these guys. I wish that they would come up with some strategies of their own, but they seem to be going down the path of everything we do."
He continues: “It's a remark that Hirai might have got away with in an earlier age, but it was instantly dismembered online. Microsoft was first to put a hard drive in a console, and pioneered with its Xbox Live community building (or both Microsoft and Sony are following the Sega Dreamcast). Microsoft was first to do a global console launch, which Sony is emulating. Microsoft offered two versions of its Xbox 360 console - which Sony said was a bad idea - but there will be two versions of the PS3, and so on.”
On a more positive note, Schofield speaks to Jez San, of (now sadly defunct) Argonaut Software fame, and an investor in PS3 title Heavenly Sword. San offers a more sober, long term view of the PS3's chances.
San thinks the PS3 will win, "...but only because it's got Blu-ray… I think the combination of a next-generation games machine and a next-generation DVD player that plays full high definition movies is very compelling, despite the huge price. Remember, price is just a function of time and volume. It doesn't matter what the PS3 comes out at, it's what it gets down to, over time, that's important."
What do you think? Is Blu-ray the deal-maker or breaker? Will you be shelling out $599/£425 come November 17, or are you happy to hang fire for a while until the price drops to a more reasonable and affordable level?
As ever, let us know in the forums.
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Comments
Showing the 20 most recent comments. Read all 47.
PreciousRoi 9 Aug 2006 06:09
28/47
philneedshelp wrote:
i think that you are fogeting the in all types of gameing hardware that their are three types of gamers in cluding handheld . home console and pc
No, I was pretty much give handheld to Nintendo, but as the topic is consoles, I didn't think Nindendo or Sonys performance in those areas affected consumers' console preference except though the casual gamers Nintendo is already poised to bring into the fold.
philneedshelp wrote:
you have the hardcore gamer. the devoted gamer and the casual gamer
but most of the hard core gamers play on pcs not consoles
the argument being that no one can be a hardcore console gamer because if they were really hardcore they'd be playing PCs...rubbish...but most of the hard core gamers play on pcs not consoles
philneedshelp wrote:
and also if you look at ps2 most early sales were with a dvd not a game coz it was the cheaper way to get a good dvd player
People who did this, and never played games on it inflated the install base, but its really only a PR victory unless they sell some software, yo.
hollywooda 9 Aug 2006 09:43
29/47
WOW someone got outta the wrong side of the bed!! hahaha... i think the thing with Wii is it looks FUN!, if ur a casual gamer or getting into gaming. When your wandering around Toys r us with all the game Pod's set up the Wii pod will be surrounded by people & Nintendo will sell a lot of console from the fun pick up & play factor. I don’t see Sony of Microsoft being able to emulate that feeling or experience, it's definitely a Nintendo thing, It’s why the DS is so successful.
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PreciousRoi 9 Aug 2006 10:18
30/47
hollywooda wrote:
... Nintendo will sell a lot of console from the fun pick up & play factor. I don’t see Sony of Microsoft being able to emulate that feeling or experience, it's definitely a Nintendo thing, It’s why the DS is so successful.
yeah, thats what I meant about their mojo, and their market position being based on something more than a gadget.
Ditto 9 Aug 2006 10:36
31/47
PreciousRoi wrote:
RiseFromYourGrave wrote:
Ok, then from a serious gamer's point of view, surely you see its massive role?
If it fails, I can see it as an albatross around Nintendo's neck. The N64 controller was enough to put me off the console permenantly.I agree with PrecuiusRoi.
hollywooda 9 Aug 2006 11:08
32/47
(i know you know this) but, Nintendo have been around 4 a very long time they know there craft & market place, i don’t always agree with what they do but i'm always interested. For me Nintendo have seen what Sony & Microsoft are doing & have carved there own niche out, will it pay off who knows?, but you've got to respect them for trying something different?
headcasephil 9 Aug 2006 12:45
33/47
For me Nintendo have seen what Sony & Microsoft are doing & have carved there own niche out,
it depends on seen what sony and microsft are doing because nintendo have been developing the wii for about 7 years and i dont tink nintendo new what sony and microsoft were up to at the start of the wii
it depends on seen what sony and microsft are doing because nintendo have been developing the wii for about 7 years and i dont tink nintendo new what sony and microsoft were up to at the start of the wii
RiseFromYourGrave 9 Aug 2006 12:47
34/47
PreciousRoi wrote:
If it fails, I can see it as an albatross around Nintendo's neck. The N64 controller was enough to put me off the console permenantly.
yes it could be a total disaster, but it could be brilliant. thats the nature of risk, of which far too few are taken these days. most brilliant things in life are born from someone taking a risk. a lot of s**t stuff too
PreciousRoi wrote:
Wow, thats saying a lot. Not.
just my view, calm down. top notch sarcasm by the way
PreciousRoi wrote:
quaint British expression I'm sure...
just british
PreciousRoi wrote:
Well thats just your own short-sightedness, what SHOULD be making your panties moist are the innovative and unique SOFTWARE that this gadget is going to enable and inspire Nintendo and its 3rd party partners to create. Sony might be able to duplicated the controller function, but Nintendo clearly has the advantage when it comes to having original thoughts and ideas.
good grief, there wouldnt BE the unique software without the unique hardware. of course im waiting for the games that are taking innovative measures to use the hardware,
but it is the hardware that will make the games able to be brilliant and original, more so than an identical counterpart using a standard controller, so saying it is the big thing (especially to a spectator, pre-launch) is of course correct.
im obviously not waiting to play fifa 07 on the wii with the controller in its NES configuration. that kind of standard gameplay (standard sequel too) is what the other consoles are for
we know that all 3 consoles do or will have good, great, terrific games on them. the wii will have mario, the 360 will have halo 3, the ps3 will have mgs4. but the wii will have that controller. its the big thing, it sets them apart, its the reason i am getting a wii.
OptimusP 9 Aug 2006 13:59
35/47
Actually...the hardware of the Wii is not new by a long shot...its the combination of several "old" techs in such a way they complement each other in achieving a new way of playing.
Like the DS really.
If the DS was only a beefed up GBA with the screen being a touch-screen...impractical gimmick.
If the DS was a beefed up GBA instead of one screen it has two screens and that's it...rubbish.
If the DS was a beefed up GBA with only a added mic on...great they can port Hey You Pickachu over and...that's it...
now combine all those three and BAM! Best Handheld Ever get!
So it isn't the hardware perse, it's what you do with it. Combo-wise and gameplay-wise...it's all a big machinery, remove one liitlepiece and it falls apart!
Like the DS really.
If the DS was only a beefed up GBA with the screen being a touch-screen...impractical gimmick.
If the DS was a beefed up GBA instead of one screen it has two screens and that's it...rubbish.
If the DS was a beefed up GBA with only a added mic on...great they can port Hey You Pickachu over and...that's it...
now combine all those three and BAM! Best Handheld Ever get!
So it isn't the hardware perse, it's what you do with it. Combo-wise and gameplay-wise...it's all a big machinery, remove one liitlepiece and it falls apart!
RiseFromYourGrave 9 Aug 2006 14:09
36/47
youre right, its not as if nintendo invented the accelerometer themselves 6 months ago, and if there was just one interesting piece of tech incorporated into the controller it may seem gimmicky or tacked on (cough - ps3 controller, directional sensor tack on just before E3, warhawk developers given 10 days to add the functionality).
but i think its fair to look at the hardware as a whole, and say 'goddamn, that controller is why the wii is called the wii and not gamecube 2.0'
assuming it is as fabulous as it seems, that controller is going to inject the fun back into lots of videogames, which just like hollywood movies and pop music has grown stale
but i think its fair to look at the hardware as a whole, and say 'goddamn, that controller is why the wii is called the wii and not gamecube 2.0'
assuming it is as fabulous as it seems, that controller is going to inject the fun back into lots of videogames, which just like hollywood movies and pop music has grown stale
PreciousRoi 10 Aug 2006 02:56
37/47
j00 wrote:
yes it could be a total disaster, but it could be brilliant. thats the nature of risk, of which far too few are taken these days. most brilliant things in life are born from someone taking a risk. a lot of s**t stuff too
Thats Nintendo's thing. Look, unlike you I'm adopting a "wait and see" approach to the Wii'troller and its success. But looked at in a sincerely objective light, the potential downside is greater than the potential upside edit:thats not to say I don't think it will be a success, I do, but the danger is there
j00 wrote:
im a lifelong intendo fan, andi havent been this excited about a nintendo console (or any other :P) for about a decade, since they made the leap to 3d.
meh wrote:
Wow, thats saying a lot. Not.
j00 wrote:
just my view, calm down. top notch sarcasm by the way
Then you shoulda just said "I'm more excited about this than I was about the GC." Instead of trying to make it sound cooler.
meh wrote:
Well thats just your own short-sightedness, what SHOULD be making your panties moist are the innovative and unique SOFTWARE that this gadget is going to enable and inspire Nintendo and its 3rd party partners to create. Sony might be able to duplicated the controller function, but Nintendo clearly has the advantage when it comes to having original thoughts and ideas.
j00 wrote:
good grief, there wouldnt BE the unique software without the unique hardware. of course im waiting for the games that are taking innovative measures to use the hardware,
but it is the hardware that will make the games able to be brilliant and original, more so than an identical counterpart using a standard controller, so saying it is the big thing (especially to a spectator, pre-launch) is of course correct.
but it is the hardware that will make the games able to be brilliant and original, more so than an identical counterpart using a standard controller, so saying it is the big thing (especially to a spectator, pre-launch) is of course correct.
I disagree. You can have innovative games without wacky hardware, but wacky hardware without innovative games is worthless. So saying that you are wrong is of course more correcter.
j00 wrote:
im obviously not waiting to play fifa 07 on the wii with the controller in its NES configuration. that kind of standard gameplay (standard sequel too) is what the other consoles are for
So you automatically concede that the Wii is suitable only as a 2nd console? Gee, I dunno, I'll have to disagree. edit:OK thats not fair, really only j/k
j00 wrote:
we know that all 3 consoles do or will have good, great, terrific games on them. the wii will have mario, the 360 will have halo 3, the ps3 will have mgs4. but the wii will have that controller. its the big thing, it sets them apart, its the reason i am getting a wii.
I woulda used Zelda and Gran Turismo for Nintendo and Sony, respectively...I'd say the Wii being 1/2 the cost of Sony sets it apart without the duplicable controller. Not to mention the Ninty mystique.
RiseFromYourGrave 10 Aug 2006 03:19
38/47
PreciousRoi wrote:
Then you shoulda just said "I'm more excited about this than I was about the GC." Instead of trying to make it sound cooler.
eh? i was talking about the 64, which was nintendo's leap to 3d (if you dont count a handful of snes games) and despite what you may think of the way i worded the sentence, it was the last console to get me as excited as i am now about the wii.
PreciousRoi wrote:
I disagree. You can have innovative games without wacky hardware, but wacky hardware without innovative games is worthless. So saying that you are wrong is of course more correcter.
but we already know for sure we'll get the games, i can sleep easy in that knowledge. so this hardware with its new method of control becomes the main focus surely
and yes, innovation can be done without strange controllers, but not many people are doing it. and if the realm of possible innovation isnt confined to whats on the screen, thats a really great thing
PreciousRoi wrote:
so you automatically concede that the Wii is suitable only as a 2nd console? Gee, I dunno, I'll have to disagree.
i shall not be buying ports with tacked on controller functionality is what i am saying.
and yeah, if iwata and the lads achieve what they are aiming for, like no crappy ports, just games designed for the hardware from the ground up, it may well be significantly different enough to inspire a wave of 2 console households. now the wii doesnt have to be second best in that pair
PreciousRoi 10 Aug 2006 03:41
39/47
RiseFromYourGrave wrote:
PreciousRoi wrote:
Then you shoulda just said "I'm more excited about this than I was about the GC." Instead of trying to make it sound cooler.
eh? i was talking about the 64, which was nintendo's leap to 3d (if you dont count a handful of snes games) and despite what you may think of the way i worded the sentence, it was the last console to get me as excited as i am now about the wii.
No, I understood you perfectly. I'm just not sure you understood yourself. I reiterate, all you're saying is that the GC didn't excite you as much as the Wii.
RiseFromYourGrave wrote:
PreciousRoi wrote:
I disagree. You can have innovative games without wacky hardware, but wacky hardware without innovative games is worthless. So saying that you are wrong is of course more correcter.
but we already know for sure we'll get the games,
we do? based on what evidence? I think you're making an unsubstanstiated assumption here.
RiseFromYourGrave wrote:
i can sleep easy in that knowledge. so this hardware with its new method of control becomes the main focus surely
As I pointed out its the hardware thats the done deal, the software is the unknown, therefore, the logical main focus. And don't call me surely.
RiseFromYourGrave wrote:
i shall not be buying ports with tacked on controller functionality is what i am saying.
Thats what you meant by:
RiseFromYourGrave wrote:
im obviously not waiting to play fifa 07 on the wii with the controller in its NES configuration. that kind of standard gameplay (standard sequel too) is what the other consoles are for
?OK, if you say so...'cuz I didn't get that, I thought you were saying "If I wanted a standard console I'd buy one."
RiseFromYourGrave 10 Aug 2006 16:04
40/47
i wasnt very excited about the GC no. i was eager to see mario with an even more rounded hat, and it did have some great games. but it was just an upgrade
i thought the N64 was a huge thing, maybe you didnt. i even like the controller
there is going to be a bunch of awesome wii games, that is in the bag - this is nintendo were talking about! theyre making a last stand in the console market and theyre pulling out all the stops - their own game developing skills are at the top of their field, and they are getting in bed with plenty of decent 3rd party developers. it is going to be brilliant (my favourite word at the moment)
i thought the N64 was a huge thing, maybe you didnt. i even like the controller
there is going to be a bunch of awesome wii games, that is in the bag - this is nintendo were talking about! theyre making a last stand in the console market and theyre pulling out all the stops - their own game developing skills are at the top of their field, and they are getting in bed with plenty of decent 3rd party developers. it is going to be brilliant (my favourite word at the moment)
Ditto 10 Aug 2006 16:29
41/47
RiseFromYourGrave wrote:
i wasnt very excited about the GC no. i was eager to see mario with an even more rounded hat, and it did have some great games. but it was just an upgrade
i thought the N64 was a huge thing, maybe you didnt. i even like the controller
i thought the N64 was a huge thing, maybe you didnt. i even like the controller
It's interesting how preferences are different between everyone.
I didn't find the N64 exciting at all (as everyone on here knows to death :p) because of the poor controller, poor control in most games and, generally unexciting game line-up (with a few exceptions).
I found the Gamecube very exciting. For the first time, Nintendo had a lot of third party support and some great games as a result - Mario Sunshine, Resident Evil, Viewtiful Joe, Tales of Symphonia, Metorid Prime, The Wind Waker et al. And a few disappointing, dodgy N64 style ones - Mario kart, Wario World spring to mind. These games were accessible and brilliant - they were the best of their genres upon release (as opposed to "N64 betas").
But I think the overall quality and quantity of games for Gamecube was a big improvement over N64.
LUPOS 10 Aug 2006 18:37
42/47
Adam M wrote:
It's interesting how preferences are different between everyone.
N64 = revolutionary.
And liek most revolutions it was mesy and poorly orchastrated, but it had alot of good ideas.
GC = Evolutionary.
Basicly took all that they got wrong on the 64 and fixed it (storage media, controller lay out etc...). No incredible new features, nothing out of the ordinary, just a good solid system. Probably the most well designed of the previous Gen. (except for the nipple stick which is retarded)
I love em both but the swtich from 16-bit to 64 was huge, the jump to the GC was "nice".
___________
RiseFromYourGrave 10 Aug 2006 20:22
43/47
i stayed with my snes until the N64, i couldve bought a psx but it didnt have the games i wanted to play, LoZ, M64 etc in full 3d. i was even hot under the collar for turok!
i thought the console was really cool, and i played it most of the time until i got a dreamcast years later. it had enough great games to keep me going, most of them coming from nintendo and rare probably as 3rd party support was thin on the ground, the gamecube was relieving in that respect, like you said adam
i thought the controller was very comfortable, and that the analogue stick was fantastic. i loved the feel of using the middle prong and z trigger during FPS's like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark
the only issue id take with the n64 controller is that some mysterious crap kept collecting in the recess which the stick protruded from
The gamecube was/is a great console, and although ive never compared a list of the great games from both the consoles, id accept it if the gc won. but the N64 blew my socks off
we should start a great n64 and gc games list, for a laugh
i thought the console was really cool, and i played it most of the time until i got a dreamcast years later. it had enough great games to keep me going, most of them coming from nintendo and rare probably as 3rd party support was thin on the ground, the gamecube was relieving in that respect, like you said adam
i thought the controller was very comfortable, and that the analogue stick was fantastic. i loved the feel of using the middle prong and z trigger during FPS's like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark
the only issue id take with the n64 controller is that some mysterious crap kept collecting in the recess which the stick protruded from
The gamecube was/is a great console, and although ive never compared a list of the great games from both the consoles, id accept it if the gc won. but the N64 blew my socks off
we should start a great n64 and gc games list, for a laugh
Ditto 10 Aug 2006 20:29
44/47
RiseFromYourGrave wrote:
we should start a great n64 and gc games list, for a laugh
Reads "laugh" as "argument" ;) ;) ;)
Nice synopsis on the N64 :).
OptimusP 10 Aug 2006 21:03
45/47
it was a "nice" in the sense of "owh look a steady fps of 30...eey, Goldeneye??" (Ok Halo and Halo2 has a problem of having a steady fps at 25...but we're talking GC here, the champion of 60fps-ness! kinda) and in a sense of "wow now i can't count the polygons of the main characters".
That's why HD is such a BAD idea. Goldeneye-like framrates returns woohoo! While virtual every game on the Wii played in wide-screen, in prologic scanning and 480p locked at 60fps...framerate over shinyness anyday people.
That's why HD is such a BAD idea. Goldeneye-like framrates returns woohoo! While virtual every game on the Wii played in wide-screen, in prologic scanning and 480p locked at 60fps...framerate over shinyness anyday people.
RiseFromYourGrave 10 Aug 2006 21:25
46/47
Adam M wrote:
Reads "laugh" as "argument" ;) ;) ;)
haha, theres nothing like a good heated chinwag about the merits of games thats for sure
if i ever want an argument, i just have to say 'how's your psp' sarcastically to one of my friends who bought one. his name is danny
ill see if hes on msn ;)
PreciousRoi 11 Aug 2006 07:07
47/47
See I saw the N64 as an evolutionary dead end, than a revolution with a mutated controller that should have been killed at birth(note to Nintendocentric revisionists:not even close to being the first console controller with an analog stick), and carts, which were like the dinosaurs smoking(bad habit, caused extinction and/or mutation into birds).
The NES controller was a prototype(in a bad way), the SNES IS the Prototype(in the best way). N64 deviated from the Prototype. Meanwhile Sony polished it up, shined it, and it was real purdy. Then they added analog sticks. The result is one of the top two console controllers of all time. Which creates the console FPS market and revoltionizes racing game control. All current and prosepective generation controllers being based around Sony's analog interpretation of the SNES controller. Except the Wii. But we like the Wii.
The counter-revolution was much more successful when it lined the N64 controller up against the wall and billed its parents the cost of the bullets(one in the head, one in the heart, silver(had to be sure, yo)). So much so that when the counter-revolution came the best that can be said is Nintendo went back to the SNES(the other one in the top 2) for the design, the worst, that they were forced to emulate Sony for the GC controller. The GC being very mainstream, if perfectly usable.
The NES controller was a prototype(in a bad way), the SNES IS the Prototype(in the best way). N64 deviated from the Prototype. Meanwhile Sony polished it up, shined it, and it was real purdy. Then they added analog sticks. The result is one of the top two console controllers of all time. Which creates the console FPS market and revoltionizes racing game control. All current and prosepective generation controllers being based around Sony's analog interpretation of the SNES controller. Except the Wii. But we like the Wii.
The counter-revolution was much more successful when it lined the N64 controller up against the wall and billed its parents the cost of the bullets(one in the head, one in the heart, silver(had to be sure, yo)). So much so that when the counter-revolution came the best that can be said is Nintendo went back to the SNES(the other one in the top 2) for the design, the worst, that they were forced to emulate Sony for the GC controller. The GC being very mainstream, if perfectly usable.