Sony Coy on PSP Pricing Shuffle

wow... you three are just begging for carple tunnel ;)

Heres an odd observation... you know how you brits keep complaining about all those pesky chavs that are taking over the place? You also knwo how the psp is sellign better than the DS over there? Also how the top games are sports games and GTA? And how the psp sells equally to the DS in the US and we have a fair percentage of wana be gangsters? and how japan doesnt have such issues and how the DS is litteraly mopping the floor with the psp in japan right now?

We aren't market analyists, we arent High level game company executives (well unless you want to count Dee and tyrion, i dunno if a game news sight classifys but you knwo what i mean) we are gamers. The sort of gamers who preffer our games to have blue skies and green fields. Interestign and imaginitive stories. We probably all prefer to be an elf in a tunic or an avenging son of a fisherman then some blinged out ghetto banger.

The world of media is over run with horrible crap. Music, movies, and even games are constantly beign s**t on by those who try to cater to this most awful of audiences. When sony anounced the psp a great many peopel saw the end of the road for nintendo (and with them the most classic of games). To see the DS doing so well now warms my bitter old sonic the hedgehog loveing heart.

This is about fun winning out over style in an industry most where convinced was going the way of popular music. The DS and now the Wii represent a second gameing renesance to many (16bit era beign the first i feel). When a giant like sony and its shiny trendy slick marketable device stumble even a bit, we cheer.

I love my xbox and my shooters dearly, but nothing would make me happier than to see the Wii outsell the lot of em. I'd like to believe that there are enough human beings left in the world who are more concerned about quality than image to put something like the Wii or the DS on top.

As rediculous as it sounds, with all that is so messed up in the world today seeing people flocking to the nintendo products makes me happy. Not because its nintendo, they are after all just a company, but because of the kind of products and services that nintendo are offering.

Most thought MS joining the game industry was a horrible thing but no one can deny that thay have gone way above and beyond to try and offer their customers the most worth while experience possible. Because thats how they make money. Its capitalism working the way it should, with the customers regulating the corporations.

or perhaps i read to much into this ;)
________

You make some good points I missed Lupos.

To Mr Todd, indeed perhaps I should choose my words carefully in future (not sure if it was me). I could say PSP is f***ing crap etc etc in a tired and rude way, but I don't because at the end of the day I respect you people and the Sony.

Are you denying Sony aren't in trouble with PSP (despite what figures and PR tell you, the lack of decent games, tv ads and such) and PS3 (with From Software and others cancelling projects as too expensive to make, the wind of change bites again)?

PSP is where Sony wanted it to be (so in a finacial sense it is a failure) but they'll say otherwise. Fine, be in a state of denial. It won't help PSP sell anymore games than it is or isn't.

Wow. You guys just completely missed the entire point of the thread. Well done.

I'm sorry to bring even more facts into the debate, but here's a shocking one.

This thread was never about how many TV ads Sony has done for PSP. It was never about whether shareholders give a crap (which they still obviously do otherwise you'd see no more handheld on shelves). It was about one, simple thing.

Sales. You guys have been quick to say "Sony is a complete failure because of sales figures". We have said "Well, actually, here are the sales figures, and they're not that bad". You, in turn, decide to say "Yeah, well that doesn't matter because all the games are ports!"

... riiiiight? OK, we'll humour you here. We'll re-assert our point and post the figures again.

"Yeah but they're out of context because Sony never does TV adverts".

... oooo...kaaaaaayyyy...
Now you're saying you're fed up with the facts and stats? Erm, lads, so are we - but you're not giving us a choice because your discussion skills are so horrendous it makes the Elephant man weep.

And Rudo and Joji, bringing unnecessary elements to the table, are just confusing themselves while we try to make them see our point.

No, Sony's not advertised PSP on TV lately. Not the point. It doesn't change the fact that PSP has not sold that much less than DS. It has sold lots less, yes, but it's not sold little enough to be declared a failure.

Look at the NGAGE. That's a failure.
Look at the Wonderswan. Failure.

Look at the Game Gear. Failure? Not quite - they still managed to battle their way to give the handheld quite a bit of shelf life and sales. Nowhere near the Game Boy, but does that make it a total failure? No.

You fanboys are so infatuated with 'console wars' it's almost nauseating. The fact that this has dragged on for so long only displays how much some of you get off on "Hu iz teh BEZT!".

The debate was never about 'teh bezt'. It was about figures. Sales figures. Which is why, funnily enough, we were showing sales figures. Get the idea?

Can I ask while I'm here, just why correct and relevant sales data posted by tyrion is 'out of context'? If anything Joji and Rudo's entire argument is out of context.

Uh, uh, uh, do the shuffle, do the shuffle...
Cardboard box, cardboard box...
Now, narrow that box down!
Further...
Further...
There's our discussion right there.

I'm replying to Joji because I have to reply to one of you, but this goes out to everybody on this thread.

If you think we need to consider the cost of manufacturing and marketing, please provide those figures so we can consider them. Without them, by your arguments, we are hand waving and all we have to fall back on is conjecture and prejudice.

If you think FIFA and GTA won't keep the PSP afloat, please look at what has been selling on it, and what keeps the PS2 afloat.

If you don't consider sales of hardware and software to be a suitable indicator of how well a platform is performing, please tell me what you would consider?

If you enjoy DS games, but not PSP games, good for you, but (and this is important) you are not the entire market.

If you don't believe in facts and only rely on your opinion, what exactly do you base your opinion on? Tremors in the force?

If you don't believe that the PSP is doing well and you think it is "sinking" or needs to recover, then why do you think it is selling so well?

If you honestly believe that in order to not be a disaster, the PSP has to trounce the DS, why do you all consider the Gamecube a viable platform and moan when titles are not released for it?

There, questions and assertions with no facts, I have raised my game to your level.

Firstly, I ain't no fan boy and I resent being called so. If I only purchased and played Nintendo product you'd be justified to call me that. Again select words carefully. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, AND YOU KEEP MISSING THIS POINT, I HAVE A BIG SELECTION OF CONSOLES AND GAMES FOR THEM EVEN A PSP, so you name calling isn't gonna change my point of view, sir.

So you admit you haven't seen any Sony PSP ads on tv. Thanks for that. You have just shot down your arguement that all is fine and dandy at Sony towers regarding PSP. DON'T YOU FIND THE LACK OF PSP TV ADS AT ALL STRANGE, FROM SONY WHO'S ADVERTISING HAS BEEN SO STRONG PREVIOUSLY FOR PSONE and PS2? HERE'S A FACT YOU ARE MISSING, QUICK GET SOME PEN AND PAPER.

This thread is about PSP is it not? Ads help sell PSP so is what I'm saying not justified, if you think they aren't related at all, you need a second brain. They aren't gonna leave you to sell it for them, mate.

Well you must think me and Rudo crazy but I've said what I think feel free to not see where I'm coming from with it.

Like I said about facts, in what ever form about whatever, they are always changing, to believe them blindly, which I feel you are, you'd have to be well......I ain't saying no more.

I bet you believed the Iraqi's had WMD, because the powers that be told you so, didn't you? Different subject but the same thing again, you should never believe everything totally, a pinch of salty doubt is always healthy.

Agree to disagree, try to free your mind. I'll pray for you.

Peace

So PSP is selling well WITHOUT any ads.

Just think how it'd be s**tting in DS's mouth (to resort to the kind of terminology that has been used in this thread) if they WERE advertising it.

But, that's a fact and we've already established that facts don't alter opinions! No matter how many times you post them. You can't stop Svend from posting his opinion.


You know what? I can't remember the last time I saw a TV advert for Windows, or the PS2, or an iPod. I bet they aren't selling either.

Well congratulations. But again. Again... again... this debate isn't about you.


Wow, caps lock and managing to miss the point yet again? Does Carol Vorderman host a show that congratulates people with your special talent?

As I've said before, and before, and before... The fact that Sony's shown next to no PSP adverts makes no difference to the fact that it hasn't sold as little as you think it has. No difference.


Unfortunately, you still think we're talking present and future tense regarding the PSP. Here's a tip: we're not. We never were.


No offence but I'm not even sure you know where you're coming from with it. You've had so many different "counter-arguments" that didn't make sense it's almost confusing me, let along you.


So you think 'facts' are press releases? Boy, I feel sorry for you...

Just a lesson to the boys and girls out there, sales figures aren't collated by Sony. Nor Nintendo. Nor Microsoft. To say we're 'believing everything Sony says' based on these ELSPA/Chart Track statistics is... well, it's just plain stupid.

I'm sorry you thought this was a fansite or blog, where kiddies post press releases as fact and news. More to the point, I'm sorry you have the same track mind as website/blog owners.


No, but we would have believed the Iraqi's had WMD's if a public, non-attached enquiry proved without doubt that such weapons existed.

Similarly, we believe the Sony PSP hasn't done as badly as people say it has because a public, non-attached organisation proved without doubt that 'X' amount of PSPs and software was sold.

Now, if that's not simple enough for you to understand, then I recommend a shovel so you can connect it with your face. Now that's interactivity.


And we will, cheers. I'm sure everyone at SPOnG will be safe in the knowledge that they're voicing their own opinions without fear of being lambasted. As long as they can effectively back up those opinions and prove what they aggressively voice to be based on something factually accurate.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you can do the same, confusing your own arguments in the never ending coffee swirl of desire that is conjecture, subject matter and reason.

The reason I believe the PSP would sell loads is not for the games, but its good media player capabilities. Stick a large memory card in it and I can have all my Red VS Blue videos, my Prison Break episodes and tunes all together, and ready to go out the door. And hey I use mine for this kind of stuff too. PSP is tops for this, if you don't want an iPod video.

The GC was a failure too, (this was clear to me two to three years into its life, despite some cool games) because while the design was sweet and petite, it wasn't online the way it should have been (indeed I was majorly disappointed here too, Nintendo again a step behind the times), it got to the market last of the three. This is very Nintendo, add a disc based system late, add online system late but things are changing for the better. The stakes are too high with Wii for more f**k ups, otherwise its next stop console retirement home. GC should have been out earlier, plain and simple.

Had the Xbox not got there first things might have been different. Fair play to MS though because Xbox bought with it some good stuff (I own one of them too so I'm hardly bias, am I?) to the table. Xbox Live is sweet and much fun has been had on it (much better than Play Online by the way), thanks. MS proved me wrong and I'm happy to say that....look I have some humble pie....mmmm,,,munch munch...yum.

In regards to PSP and DS, it's a two horse race as both are selling, neck and neck or not (you decide). So, yeah Sony might or might not be first, but if MS are to enter the handhed market soon, who's gonna be in trouble first....that's right..Sony PSP. This is another angle to my arguement. What if MS grab that second spot again, what then? The DS games are strong enough to battle MS efforts, but can you really say the PSPs games are too? I sure can't which is a shame.

When I say failure I mean its not doing as well as it should be , I've seen Sony of the past with more heart than they have now for PSP.

Come years end, the tv ads will be back for PS3 this time, but where will that leave the PSP once 360 drops its price? In a worse position than its in now I reckon.

PSP is pricey kit and at £180, I was never gonna buy one. £70 on Ebay however, I had to get one. Much funny followed.

This is all because I called the PSP a titanic like failure.

If Sony feel they don't need tv ads and are doing well fair play to that. Still needs to be cheaper though. When a new cheap 360 is £200, that's more a tempting offer for many may go for this xmas.

PSP is in a tough spot between DS and 360, cost wise.

Anyway, I'm off to pay Ridge Racers.

Laters

Man... I cannot believe I actually read all that. From what I can gather, you guys seem to be arguing facts over observations.

Sure the PSP is selling well, but numbers don't talk in the way that people do. I'd much rather see... say, a survey of a random sample over a stat sheet. That's my opinion from the standpoint of a gamer not concerned in money, revenue, and whatnot.

I'm not saying that following facts is a bad thing, but facts vary, times change... yadda yadda. You could write an essay on WWII based on solid fact and yet still have it disputed. You can say to be unbiased, but everyone is. I am, I thought the PSP would crush Nintendo utterly, they didn't... I almost made a mess in my pants.

I don't ever listen to weather forcasts, instead I use the handy skill of looking out the window. Fact vs observation.

1. The Titanic was brilliant. The best thing ever made. Before it sank. The PSP hasn't sunk yet. It might though. Joji believes it will. In his personal context, Titanic reference stands, though of course will prove false.

2. Sales figures should not be broken up across regions if comparing the absolute performance of two platforms.

Global hardware:
Global software:

Most wins.

3. There are two other factors in how to assess if DS and PSP are succeeding. User satisfaction (hardware and software) and profitability of each project for its respective manufacturers. Perhaps you could also include third-party revenue and satisfaction, though in this case, there's no need.

4. Never argue with anyone who'll defend the PSP to the point of saying the DS Lite's screen would be too bright and might burn your eyes.

My tupenneth worth is simple:

The only problem with the PSP is that, FOR NO OBVIOUS REASON, nobody is making decent games for it.

There's enough units installed, SCE mastering charges offer a better split than those of Nintendo, it's not that difficult to program for...

WHAT'S GOING ON?

maybe everyones sick of making ps2 games portable

as for that david and goliath analogy, yeah i guess sony is 'david' in the handheld market square-off. but david's packing a cash powered minigun with bottomless pits of munitions, GPS aiming and snazzy PlayStation decals to entice the cool kids

:D

Your last point there were the kind of things I was trying to say. Sony could make a comeback tomorrow but I'm sensing a relax attitude about PSP.

As for Warbaby, you are right too. Facts vs Observation. Both tell something different. I prefer the latter, with the former as a means for other stuff. Each to their own Svend.

Fresh.
Props.

No it wasn't, it was the worst thing ever, with respect to "unsinkable" ships. It's just that no-one had realised it yet.

By your "logic" everything is the best thing ever (and the worst thing ever) until people discover otherwise. It's just fatuous.


But what if you are not comparing the "absolute" performance of two systems?

This doesn't work like proportional representation. Despite the increasing trend to globalisation - which is actually is just a rouse to exploit brown people buy making things cheaply and exploit white people by selling them more expensively whilst achieving an operational advantage over less wealthy companies who can't afford to exploit brown people in the same way.

In reality, most 'global' companies operate as three separate large companies.


I have come to expect rampant oversimplification and complete disregard for the point from you... here you combine the two admirably.

The point in question here is whether PSP is a Titanic (and this is not an allusion to the 'best thing ever' or the expensive but dreary movie, it is an asserion that is is going to turn out to be a massive disaster). By your simplistic criterion it 'loses'.

But there are very many examples of brands which 'lose' while remaining extremely successful and profit-making. Pepsi and Apple for instance... At present, and for the foreseeable future, PSP is one of these brands - why does that offend the fanboys so much? And despite how many platforms you own, Joji, on this one you sound like a fanboy, you taste like a fanboy - so you must be a...


That's a reasonable enough assertion, but you don't give any metrics or anecdotes to turn it into a point of any kind.


Excellent. Just what we needed, another fanboy bringing out of context and irrelevant data to the discussion just because he got pwned before.

You clearly haven't noticed that I'm not arguing FOR the PSP here, I'm arguing agains ther stupidity of an assertion that is contrary to all empirical evidence.


Again, this is a common myth, perpetuated by ill-considered forum posts like yours. There are PLENTY of decent (and better) games for it - LocoRoco, Katamari, Liberty City, Tomb Raider: Legend, Lemmings, SIMs, Burnout - just no platform exclusive killers.

And really when you think about it, why would there be?

DS demands software made especially for it - software tweaked to use its control method is invariably unsatisfactory.

PSP can take most PS2/XBox/GameCube games... what company is going to reduce its own opportunity for profit by making a game exclusive to the platform?

Then just say that. Don't f**kin crucify a machine on a whim. You lost a lost of credibility in this one.

As far as you an I are concerned, the PSP has only one problem. For NO UNDERSTANDABLE REASON, there is a games drought. It should be fixed up in the not-too distant future, but even mooted press releases look shaky. Know why...?

I think it might be as simple as cynical publishers realising they can command better returns on low-dev-cost DS titles. Bot that doesn't reflect on the PSP, just on the tunnel-vision of all third-parties.

I can't believe we wrote it all ;-)

But power to you for sticking with us!


I think they both have their place... We're in no position to take such a sample because everyone who comes here is so invested intheir platform... it needs to be done outside the door of GamesStation or GAME. Maybe we should give it a go?



Me too, though I must admit, that was when it looked like PSP was gonna launch against GBA - DS was rushed to counter the threat - but it's a creditable machine - and now the Lite is here - a much more formidable opponent. I know people say real gamers don't care what they are seen with on the bus - but I don't take the bus, and real window lickers don't care that they are seen giving M+S a free squeegying either.


That's prediction vs observation - not the same thing at all.

In England, saying it's been sunny for five weeks does not imply it will be sunny tomorrow. Saying PSP has outsold DS in the USA for seven months running DOES imply that it will next month. The New Super Mario release then means it doesn't of course - but you get the point!

Well, you could look at the releases lists for the PSP and the DS on this very website!

For the next two months in the UK (where SPOnG has better visibility on releases)

PSP 10
DS 9

Not to far off the mark, especially since we are still in the summer drought of games.

Now how about the total number of games on the platforms? SPOnG has details on the following numbers of games.

PSP 349
DS 286

So a similar number of releases in the immediate future and more games over all in SPOnG (note emphasis, we aren't strong on coverage of the US or JP) all point to a similar vitality in number of games.

It could be argued that the games on the DS are more enjoyable, and I'm sure that for many people this is true, but my personal preference is for games on the PSP. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

I dunno, LocoRoco is a platform exclusive (at the mo) and, especially amongst the the blue sky/green field lovers of the Nintendo generation, IMO it's a killer app.

There have been quite a few really enjoyable games for PSP, and even though I don't own one and have only played a handful of titles for the machine, I can instantly think of two early titles that got drew me in; Mercury and Grip Shift. I almost bought one on day one, and again when GTA came out - I just love the "f**k about" factor of GTA's sandbox cities. Indeed, if it weren't for two factors; price and my complete lack of spare time, I'd have one in a heartbeat. Understand that as a gamer I don't find the price prohibitively high, but as a father with other priorites and responsibilities, it is - which also count for the DS.

Last winter I borrowed the office DS and took home a handful of titles to see what this touch screen jiggery pokery was all about. I like racing games for their quick epinephrine fix, so I took NfS Most Wanted and Ride Racer. I also took Super Mario 64 DS and Another Code. Oh, and Nintendogs - my daughter loves it.

Anyway, on a long, tedious driver up to the arse end of Scotland I gave them all a go (I wasn't driving, btw)

NfS Moist Wanked: S**te. Utter, dire uncontrollable s**te. Looks awful, plays awful.
Ridge Racer: A littler easier to control, but uglier than the PS1 version. Hardly the epi fix I was after.
Another code: there might be a game under all thosee pages of tedious text narrative, but I got bored after 15 minutes of paging - not the ideal game for a handheld.
Super Mario: I dunno, maybe it's me, but the controls just weren't right. I gave it 45 minutes, then got shut of it.
Nintendogs: Easily the best of the lot, most probably because it was designed specifically with the format and hardware limitations as a guide. However, I'd played it loads with my kid, so it wasn't going to keep me engaged for more than half and hour (which is really the game's MO)



I think this is what irks so many DS fanbois - that the pesky PSP plays games using old fashioned buttons and d-pad. It's just so bloody old skool, and damn them for the games that so closely resemble those available on home consoles, with their disposable gameplay and flashy graphics. Games on the DS would never do the former and could never do the latter. Damn them! DAMN THEM!