Revolution controller – Analysis, Nintendo comment, images, more

do you have to move an analog stick in a full loop to turn right?

no, you just move it to the side and the screen moves... all you woudl do to turn it is turn it farther that the width of the screen... infact it wont turn an fps into a light gun game cause you need the whole scree to move in an fps not just a cross hair... so it would be more like controlling an fps with a full sized joystick i think

who woudl have thought a fighting game as complicated as virtua fighter could have existed back in the nes days? we only ever had 2 buttons... but developers have made games work within those confines and now they just have a different set of rules to work within... anything can be done with it... just differentley.

I must admit that wheni saw the controller I was surprised, it was not what i had been expecting.
Then i read more about it and i am quite excited about the prospects it has.
I think it is too early for people to start judging it, only with hands on play will people fully understand what the controller is like. Judging from Nintendos past innovations i am sure this is going to be great and certainly fresh, and that is what the industry needs. I am fed up with countless sequels and repetitive games, i am bored of it all now. This may alienate Nintendo in the market but it will also make their machine unique and give it some identity. MS and Sony will both have the same games (albiet for a few exclusives) and this gives their consoles no indentity. Revolution will have games that you cannot play on other consoles. This is a brave move from Nintendo who are really pushing the boundaries on innovation.

OK, I'm coming in late on this thread, but bear with me, I became old on Saturday and spent Friday revelling in my last few hours of youth.

The controller for the evolution shown at TGS is certainly a huge departure from what we have come to expect from our gaming controllers.

Is this a bad thing? I think maybe it is, and maybe it isn't.

Allow me to explain my thinking before I get flamed from the face of the planet by both sides of the discussion.

Why is it a bad thing?
Well, it's different. The implications of this difference are increased costs in developing a Rev port of multi-platform games.

We already know the Rev won't have the CPU or Graphical horsepower that the PS3 and X360 are claiming. So devs will have to downsample the textures for Rev, not a simple resize in Photoshop either since fine detail will be lost like that. Also, not as many effects, not as "pretty" looking graphics, not as many lights, particles or models.

All compared to the PS3 and X360 of course, compared to today's games things will look much better.

On top of that, we now have an entirely new concept for a controller. Instead of just mapping the triangle button to the X or Y button, we have to point the controller at the ceiling and jerk it up and down to reload our shotgun. Much more fun for the player, much, much more time for the developer.

The playtesting department are going to have to put more people on a project so see if the latest gesture tweaks are intuitive for first time players. The constant cycling of play test staff will cause logistical nightmares for other developments.

All of this costs money for a developer or publisher that is already putting huge amounts of money into game development.

So the Rev will get fewer cross-platform games than the PS3 or X360.

Why is it a good thing?
Well, it's different. The implications of this difference mean that new styles of games can be developed that won't be possible on the other two platforms.

We already know the Rev won't have the CPU or Graphical horsepower that the PS3 and X360 are claiming. So artists won't have to spend as long making graphics for the Rev as they would for the PS3 or X360, there is a saving in costs. The whole concept lends its self to simpler games so there's another saving, you don't need graphical glitz and effects.

The games will be much cheaper to develop overall. Your developers will be much happier working on a weird little game than on another "scripting the middleware" licensed platformer. Believe it or not, even programmers like to invent and innovate with gameplay, that's why they write games and not financial software.

So we have lower costs to develop, more quirky games and developer satisfaction and interest. Sounds like a great opportunity for smaller dev houses and maybe even homebrew developers to get their games out there.

Sure Nintendo will be publishing about 40% of all games on the Rev, but they will have loads of different developers feeding in new and different types of games.

And that's why the Rev controller is a good thing. It will break the games market into big multi-platform games and small, quirky and, you know, fun games.

Nintendo are positioning themselves as the second game platform in every house with the Rev. Peer pressure and fancy graphics will draw in most people and ensure they buy a PS3 or X360. The fun games and different approach will draw people in as well and most people will also get a Rev. Maybe not at launch, but after a while there will be two systems in a lot of houses.

What will actually happen
Who knows? Not me!

It all depends on how well Nintendo sell the Rev into developers. It all depends on how much extra money EA, Ubisoft and the like are willing to put into Rev games. It all depends on whether Nintendo will open the Rev to hobbyist developers.

It could be very, very good.

It could be the end of Nintendo.

Either way it's a brave move that took large brass ones.

OK back again, question for you ninty haters out there, have you actually bothered to watch the nintendo keynote speech. yes its long winded, but the most important thing is that they are trying to reset the games market. We all know that at the moment the market is stagnant with endless reproductions of old software. The only new game play mechanisms that are litrally new and fresh are from nintendo and lie in that wonderful machine the DS (warioware, electroplancton, nintendogs... the list goes on). Now i'll admit i'm a Nintedo fan boy, but everyone must see that by developing a machine that is not the most powerful machine out there and by creating a new game play mechanism in the controller, nintendo have provided a machine that has the ability too change the market. The gamecube was loved by publishing houses for the ease of which really good looking games could be produced (Metroid anyone?) the rev i belive will go down the same path and have many of the graphical processes already precoded.... this will allow smaller dev houses the ones with the real ideas to develop for the system and also maintain low dev costs. I mean i don't know about you but i'm getting a bit F*&%ed off with endless clone of games that EA, and the like are churning out, prime example is Timesplitters FP, easier, prettier, but definatly not as good as the 1st and 2nd games. I don't personally know but i wouldn't doubt the dev costs were significantly higher for the game either.
Nintendo actually said in the keynote, "if your have an idea then approach us and we will help you."
A bold statement in my opinion but a statement that proves nintendos comitment to changing the games industry. I've been scouring net for days now looking for opinions and info on the controller and the one thing that i have seen is people going "oh you could use it for such n such" or " imagine doing ???", it has sparked a massive surge of creativity and people haven't even touched it yet. By offering something completely new that hopefully will be easy and cheap to code for will put nintendo in a different market to sony and microsoft. just thinking back to the old Lucusarts adventure games for instance (monkey island and the like), they are simple backdrop based games that would work amazingly with the machine, but many of those games could be produced by the massive number of flash developers looking for a new challenge (and some money) that are out there. This is where nintendo really has some leverage on the market, they are trying to go back to the days of the spectrum bedroom developers where a good idea pays better than any board room brainstorming session and where politics always hampers creativity.
And just as a final point, the rev will be a DVD player as well right, and the controller looks like a remote right?.... imagine coming home and seeing your Wife, parents, grandparent etc playing on the machine. they had only got up to put a dvd on but where intruiged by the movement in the remote. Nintendo have a real card there, the true non-gamers will probably "by accident" have a go and be genuinly intruiged and start playing, nintendo are being very shifty in there approach but i think that is the only way that they can really change the games market. Oh and on a final note price, at a probable £100-150 in the uk the machine will be a lot less than sony and microsfts offerings. So i'll be getting one, and if i can get a dev kit i'll try my hand at developing for it too.... i have many many ideas already same as every one else....

I hadn't thought of homebrew developers, I guess that would be pretty awesome actually. Although I'm still not convinced. Like I said, I might like it when it comes to playing it.

This made me simile a bit. Is this the same Nintendo that wouldn't let anyone else manufacture NES carts in the 1980s? Then made them pay through the nose for chips when they could manufacture the carts themselves? The same Nintendo that doesn't let even the most well-known developers have access to the development kit they need to develop, for example, online functionality?

The one thing that gets me excited is the possibility of indie games on Rev, and the possibility of developing some games for it myself. However, at the moment there isn't any evidence of how, or if, Nintendo plans to do this.

Development for Rev will be made expensive because developers will be unable to use conventional middleware and will have to redesign games for Rev (as T posted above). The Rev will have a smaller base of potential customers, and even if development is less expensive, the potential for revenue will be less than on PS3 and X360.

Yes, the indies and small houses will produce innovative games. If Nintendo support them, it will be for a 51% stake in their companies or a 20% stake and a ten-year "Nintendo-only agreement". Just look at Retro Studios.

Anyway, I think the concept is excellent, but I can't see Nintendo having the marketing muscle to sell it's ideas to the public. They have a track record of market failings. I can't see Nintendo having the clout in the industry any more to attract third parties, support for Nintendo systems has been declining for approaching 10 years.

They need new blood in the company and a serious corporate rethink. They need to make this the final push, rather than having that "we always make a profit and are always popular" attitude that allowed the Master System to rival the NES, the Mega Drive to rival the Super NES, Sony to overtake the N64, Microsoft and Sony to overtake the Gamecube and will no doubt allow Microsoft to overtake the Revolution in Japan. Only that will save them from the enevitable terminal decline.

Homebrew is always a funny one, you just have to look back to the PD games that were available in the Amiga/Atari ST era. How many versions of artillery games did we have before Worms made them all look stupid?

I worry that if the Rev is opened up to hobbyists, all we will get is endless Duck Hunt type games.

so when do ppl think the rev will be released in uk.i know it says "coming 2006" but i wish we had a certian month.
what about this...zelda ttp delayed and used as a launch title for rev.it would be so cool if the got the machine in shops before the ps3.
p.s im goin to the 50 cent concert in belfast tonight...cant wait.wooooo

I definatly agree with nintendo and its marketing clout or lack of, however the DS has been given a significanty larger push than the gamecube or N64, particuarly in the european regions. I'm hoping just as all avid nintendo followers that they get it right. The difference with nintendo when comparing them to sony and microsoft is that they have been there since the begining and they know that the market is looking for something new it needs to change because if it doesn't it'll fall on it's face. If they don't succeed at least the idea will be ripped off by either sony or microsoft and the games industry will finally be fun again. I don't mean to go on but i really am bored of the endless tripe that is realesed in the UK, the big games companies make pretty looking games but that really is about it.

ONCE AGAIN...for those how are scared of change and can't see the great possibilities with Nintendo revolutionary controller (its a brilliant move)... this is will be a solution for you. Read the information bellow.

Eurogamer: How is the controller going to work with games that aren't designed specifically for the Revolution - multi-platform titles and so on?

Jim Merrick: We're producing a classic-style expansion controller, based on traditional designs like the Gamecube controller. It's like a shell with a hole in the top into which you slot the freehand-style controller, and then you can play third-party ported games, and retro Nintendo games you've downloaded.

So there's that option - but even while it's inserted into the classic-style shell, the freehand controller will still be able to sense positioning and so on, so there are more options too.

It's something that's just as true for the DS - not every game uses the DS's unique features. But some multi-platform titles do, like The Sims 2 for example. We hope other developers will do the same and look at ways their multi-platform titles can make use of the Revolution's features.

I reckon Rev would be out March 2006 which is Nintendo's end of their financial year. If not then I'd say by April or May 2006. I'm sure they'd want Revs sold before the summer perhaps. Time will tell.

Onto the topic at hand. I'm with Happydwarf and co on this one, and I think some of the scepticism of Pilot13 and the Unknown one are born out of fear of change.

Food for thought, think about this for a moment. Fear of change is what will kill this industry if we don't take action and that's what Nintendo are bravely doing. Remember that old saying 'Fortune favours the brave'', well perhaps it's true. Don't forget next time you switch on your PS2 or Xbox all the gaming creature comforts that Nintendo bought to the industry so you can sit for hours on Halo 2, Pro Evo 4 etc.

Many feared change that N64 analogue stick bought too (even the mighty Sony, that's why we got the first Dual Shock for PSone, and then Dual Shock 2 for PS2), but now it's a mere after thought. Never forget who tried these ideas for consoles first, because everytime you say something negative towards the Rev and it's controller, you are also putting down the very PS2 and Xbox d-pads, analogue sticks and rumble features that you once feared and now enjoy. Sure give your comments, but never forget the above and take them into account when you mention Rev for their brave steps against the tide.

It's diversify or die out there, and with the pool of money shrinking, like the water of an oasis, out of reach into caverns deep below, smaller developers will die of thirst due to higher development cost and lack of good ideas being given chances. We've already seen countless talented u.k and other developers fold and it's still happening. If Nintendo don't bring us the waterfall that the Rev clearly is, the industry might not last another ten years and beyond like it should. MS and Sony will put consoles online and while sweet the games will still be wolves in sheeps pretty clothing, some good, some bad and it won't be long before the masses start bailing out on games and more jobs are lost.

It's okay to be a little anxious or scared as we are yet to try the Rev and learn more about it fully. Its like learning to drive or anything new you do in life, it's healthy to be a little scared. However I believe Nintendo have enjoyed playing poker face with us all this time and at last revealing their true hand with a loud, Laughing Cavalier like laugh. They know what they are doing, the same way they did with the DS, the very system that many also said would fail because it was doing something different, and who's chewing on burnt humble pie now DS is kicking PSP into touch (like I said it would)?

The possibilities for games on Rev are greater than 360 and PS3. I can already see a Trauma Center home version as a option I'd love, or even a Mad Dentist game, who knows what we'll get but it's gonna be interesting finding out. Like the DS, the Rev is a second gauntlet thrown down to test developers and will again divide the wheat from the chaff. (Has anyone else noticed that so far, all the best DS games seem to come from Japan ((Trauma Center, Ouendan, Nintendogs, Electroplankton etc))? Now why is that and where are the western games for DS? Are western developers lacking ideas here or just otping for easier, traditional 360, PSP and PS3 game development instead?)

I wouldn't worry about graphics so much anymore since the GC was doing okay in that department next to Xbox and PS2 (RE4 is testament to this), so if the Rev graphics are a slight improvement over the GC that's good and helps keep costs down, I can live with that. I love how the 360 and PS3 graphics look but graphics are reaching their peak if not already standing on that summit.

This is the games industries time of Rennaisance, developers and publishers need it as much as the gamers do. You can choose to embrace the Rev and change or be left in the corner having less or no fun at all, it's up to you. When the games start hitting home for Rev I'm damn sure I ain't gonna miss out. So there you go Pilot, Unknown and sceptic friends.

Long live the DS, the Rev and more importantly the games industry.

Pilot...You might take a look at IGN. They have an interesting article on what could be done with the new controller.

Well perhaps Pilot and co like flying blind with no parachute. I feel anyone with doubts should watch the controller video and read as much on it and the Rev as possible.

I found this interesting little article at a website i found recently, hava read and tell me what you all think.

http://www.gamesfirst.com/?id=682

Many points have it spot on, now if only the Spong crew could do the same.

Let us know what you think.

Interesting, certainly but i think that the spong crew have also forgot about nintendos best kept titles. Games like warioware, pilotwings, marioparty etc are where nintendo really can gain a major place in the industry. I mean imagine playing pilotwings but holding the controller like a paper plane. Banking through the hoops, controlling a parachute by moving the weight of the player by banking the controller, theres more but think of the possibilities yourself.
And as far as Spongs "bad" journalism I think that Spong is just jealous because nintendo gave IGN the exclusive hands on. All doubters out there check this out and let me know what you think (MetalPhoenix79 metioned above)

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html

I think Spong's journalism is good but just lacking a little objective vision judging by the post on the Rev, but I'm also aware that that is written by one person and is not a wide angle view from the whole Spong crew on it.

IGN despite the critique they get got some good stuff on the Rev and sometimes they are worth checking because of such things. I suppose now Mr Murdock owns them they'll get a lot more of the same, perhaps a shame, you decide.

It has to be said though had I not gone to IGN and downloaded the Rev controller video I would not understand the whole concept more like I do now (so thanks IGN), perhaps some at Spong should watch the same video I did and use some imagination of what it can be used for to enhance games, past what we currently know as the norm.

But again like a said read this if you haven't already. It raises some interesting questions.

http://www.gamesfirst.com/?id=682